Episode 213: The Deal on the Bus

5/19/2022-- This week, Jenn and Lisa begin discuss what’s happening in the race for State Auditor – current Auditor Suzanne Bump endorsed candidate Chris Dempsey as her successor, calling him a “true progressive.” She had previously refuted some of the claims made by Diana DiZoglio, another candidate, about the purview of the auditor’s office.

Our first guest this week is Caroline Vanasse, Project Manager for the MBTA Bus Network Redesign. She shares details of the redesign, explaining the MBTA’s plans for more reliable and expansive bus service.

Finally, Dr. Todd Ellerin, director of infectious diseases and chief of medicine at South Shore Health in Weymouth joins the show to share what he knows about the worrying new Omicron subvariant that is dominating Massachusetts, BA.2.12.1.

Full transcript below:

Jennifer Smith: [00:00:59] Today on The Horse Race, an MBTA bus network redesign promises more service and reliability. And later, what is the new strain of COVID that's dominating Massachusetts? It's Thursday, May 19th. [00:01:11][12.0]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:01:26] Welcome back to the horse race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Lisa Kashinsky here with Jennifer Smith. Our co-host Steve Koczela is out this week. But of course, here in spirit whenever we say the word 'poll'. So, Jenn, how are you doing this fine week? [00:01:44][17.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:44] I am doing just fine. Aside from being terribly, terribly confused by whatever Boston weather is on right now. It is drunk, it is high. It is having a better week than the rest of us. It was frickin 86 degrees this last weekend, Lisa. [00:02:00][15.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:02:01] And it's supposed to be 90 something again this weekend. And but somewhere in between in the sixties, I I've lost all sense of weather, direction, all I know is that when I walk outside, there is a lot of pollen and warmth, but sun. [00:02:18][17.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:02:18] Oh, no. That's right. Yeah, it's. It's a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag. People are warm, but they're also sneezing. Nothing to do with the pandemic, but, you know, can't help anyone anyway. There is a lot to talk about today, so we're going to get into that. We've got a new bus network redesign proposal that was released this week. And also, very troublingly, as I kind of referenced there, a new highly transmissible strain of COVID is responsible for a pretty big uptick in cases in Massachusetts. But for now, let's, you know, debrief on a subject that I'm sure is near and dear to our listeners heart. What is going on with the state auditor race? [00:02:56][37.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:02:58] We have some action in what is surprisingly one of the more active races this year. State auditor Suzanne Bump has endorsed Chris Dempsey to be her successor. For those kind of paying attention to the dynamics of this race, that might not be a big surprise, though. It is a big coup for Chris Dempsey. Suzanne Bump and Chris Dempsey have known each other for years. They worked together on Deval Patrick's first gubernatorial campaign. They overlapped in his administration. And apparently the auditor told The Globe she had offered Dempsey a job as her chief of staff in 2018, which I hadn't known before this week. He did turn it down, so they were not direct colleagues, but they've had a pretty long relationship. And on top of that, Suzanne Bump has been refuting some of state senator Diana DiZoglio's claims about the power of the auditor's office and what she can or can't audit in the press. And she had some kind of pointed words, though she didn't name Diana by name. She did kind of reference, you know, calling Dempsey the true progressive in the race and mentioning his personal integrity and things like that and her endorsement of him. So it was very pointed and also interesting in another way, because Suzanne Bump is the first female auditor in Massachusetts and in this endorsement, she bypassed the only woman running to replace her. [00:04:24][86.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:25] And also part of the thing that you touched on there, which is so, so interesting, is since our listeners know, we've had all of the state auditor candidates on the podcast to kind of talk about their visions, but we've also talked to them about how they see the mechanics of the office, you know, the roles and the powers of the office. So one of the things that State Senator DiZoglio has talked about is, you know, the legislature likes to think of itself as exempt from a whole lot of oversight. So it is interesting that part of this is not just the personal relationship between Bump and Dempsey going back, but also a real question about to what extent is the auditor's office so kind of overwhelmed by its constitutional brief already and to what extent it should be kind of trying to branch out into overseeing other branches of government? There have been attempts in the past to kind of directly address whether or not the auditor's office can oversee the legislature, though, right? [00:05:25][59.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:05:26] Yeah. So this question is something that has come up and she's about herself had actually researched the issue when she was first elected. The legislature is not among the list of offices or agencies that the auditor's office can audit. That was a lot of audit in one sentence. But that's you know, the auditor has the authority to audit the more than 200 executive branch agencies, but the legislature is not on that list. [00:05:54][27.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:05:55] And look, we find this very interesting. We hope you find this very interesting. So there's certainly more to come on that. I love that this is an extremely busy race. Also, ballot measure season is truly underway. So if you see Senator Ed Markey wandering around talking about the Fair Share amendment, that's what's going on. In the meantime, let's shift gears to talk about what's in the works for the MBTA bus system. Lisa, shall we? [00:06:18][23.1]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:06:18] Let's ride the T. [00:06:19][1.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:06:25] The MBTA is working on a bus network wide redesign so that busses run more often and to more places for more people. We're joined today by the project manager for the MBTA bus network, redesign Caroline Vanesse, to talk more about it. Caroline, welcome. Thanks for being on The Horse Race. [00:06:39][14.5]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:06:40] Thanks for having me. [00:06:41][0.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:06:41] So lay out the redesign for us, if you would. We've touched on this project in past horse race episodes, but the full map hasn't yet been launched. So what are the underlying aims and what are the next 5 to 6 years look like? [00:06:53][11.8]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:06:54] Yeah. So we've actually been working on this for a number of years now, really with the idea that trip patterns in the region have dramatically changed, but our bus network hasn't. And so how do we actually respond to that change? And what does a new bus network look like? So we started actually by looking at cell phone data to better understand how travel patterns have changed in the region. It is private and anonymized, so not as creepy as it sounds. Using data for good, as I say. And what's great about this data is it captures all trips. So it's actually not just focused on transit, it captures car walking, biking and transit trips all together. So we're actually able to look at trips that people are making that are not on transit today and see how we can better serve those destinations. Places that are not surprising. You know, places like the Seaport and Kendall Square and the Longwood Medical area all pop up. But but actually, maybe more surprising is that you see that a lot of travel is local. [00:07:57][63.8]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:07:58] And if you actually think about the trips that you make all day, whether it be on transit, walking, biking or driving, it actually makes sense, right? You're going to your friend's house. You're going to a grocery store. Not all trips are work trips. And so I think that's something we've really been focused on, is how do we actually provide better options throughout the day, seven days a week. So in this new bus network, you will see significant improvements in weekend service, a 70% increase in weekend service across the network. You will see more mid-day and evening trips. You will see just more generally more cross-town connections. So not just trips, getting people to downtown Boston, but getting people across different areas in the region. So so that's kind of the kind of thing that you can expect to see when you take a look at the map. And then in terms of your second question of like where we're going over the next five years. So right now we have just launched our official public outreach process. And I definitely ask folks to go to all of the various events. There are many of them. We really want to hear from people. This process will be made better when we hear from actual riders and we want to hear that input. And so we're doing three months of public outreach over the summer and then basically coming back with a new final map that we will bring to the public. And then looking at beginning to implement this in the spring of 23, over a five year period. So that's kind of the timeline that we're looking at. [00:09:31][92.6]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:09:32] So you're talking about more service and better service, but where specifically are you targeting this more and better service? [00:09:40][7.9]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:09:41] Yeah, so so one of our big primary objectives is creating a more equitable network. And for us, I want to be clear on the definition because sometimes I think we throw around the word equity and it can mean very different things to different people. But what we're talking about specifically here is is creating better access to opportunities for what we're calling transit critical populations. So that's low income populations, people of color, seniors, people with disabilities, and people with limited access to vehicles, but also better service quality. So it's so it's both. And that's something that we've actually been measuring and tracking with that new data set that we mentioned. So places like Roxbury, like Everett, like Chelsea, places that have been underserved for years, are going to see huge improvements in the amount of bus service that they are going to get as a result of this project. And that's something, again, that, you know, has been a really guiding star for this project is just how do we make the network more equitable? [00:10:44][62.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:10:45] And so on the website itself, there are so many charts, maps, lists, etc., kind of laying out the proposed changes by city and town and to my delight, even neighborhood, because I did in fact spend most of yesterday looking at Dorchester and Mattapan. So there's a number of different things that are proposed from new routes to cleaning up existing ones to increasing service on key lines. So let's walk through a few of those different options. So how was the team trying to balance keeping existing service predictable? So say by keeping bus routes that people already depend on and are used to versus reconfiguring sometimes very messy bus routes. [00:11:22][37.0]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:11:23] Yeah. And you know, it's a great question because if you look at our street network, it's just a mess compared to other cities. I happen to live in Somerville, which just has a lot of hills, a lot of one way streets. It's very confusing for everyone, even for folks who have lived here for a long time. Navigating the streets, whether you are walking, biking, driving or on transit is confusing, just as a baseline. So I guess I would say definitely as a guiding principle, we have tried to create straighter routes. We've tried for, again, more consistency. One of our again, like kind of key guides here is having the same schedules seven days a week and reducing the amount of variation that you see so you can, you know, go to your bus stop and you know that you're going to end up in the same place you're trying to get to, versus sometimes we have these funky schedules that take you to one place on weekends and another place on the weekday. And we want to have the same kind of trip experience throughout the week, and that includes weekend travel as well. I think important to mention here too is a lot of this is dependent on working with our municipal partners on this to implement significant transit priority so that our busses can continue to kind of like get through traffic as they have in other places where we've implemented transit priority. So that's going to be, you know, a big kind of piece of this that will be critical to its success. [00:13:03][99.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:13:03] And then, generally speaking, where were you looking at new lines being appropriate as opposed to service upgrades for existing routes? [00:13:10][7.1]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:13:12] Yeah. So I think the the data we used really helped to inform a lot of those decisions as well as the public outreach that we've used to date. So we heard a ton about crosstown connections. Some of the really like interesting routes that you're probably already seeing some comments on. I know I've been, you know, browsing social media to check on things is, is our new 39 which will connect Cambridge with Jamaica Plain, which is actually creating I mean for me personally, I would definitely take that route. But I also know, you know, I hear a lot from folks that are just like getting across the river and making that connection overall for different types of experiences, whether it's job opportunities or social outings or whatever it is. It's kind of an impossible trip to make today. So that's one. Another one that that we've been highlighting is also this this new route that goes from Charlestown all the way to the Seaport and also even to South Boston. And that's going to actually be really dependent on bus priority treatments that the city of Boston is already starting to work on that will create bus priority between North and South Station. So that's actually creating a really big connection between those, not just those two stations, but those different connection points all the way from Charlestown, all the way through Downtown and the Seaport. So again, just looking at kind of some connections that aren't made today and also complementing our rapid transit network was another thing, too. We we have purposely tried not to duplicate it and again, complement and especially as you see kind of this these these routes that have more high frequency, getting people to start to think about bus the same way that they think about the Rapid Transit Network as really a walk up service that you can just show up at and expect to get a bus. And it's frequent and reliable. It gets you where you need to go when when you need to get there. [00:15:12][120.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:15:13] So you sort of just touched on both parts of my next question. But how do designated bus lanes factor into this redesign? And also, how does the Green Line extension factor into this speaking as someone who sort of lives in the vicinity of that? [00:15:28][14.7]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:15:29] Yeah, sure. So bus lanes, we've been talking to our municipal partners since the inception of this project, and we started it a few years ago. And so the way we've been talking about it is especially where we are trying to run more high frequency service. And you'll see that in the map that by the way, I should have said this, we are doubling the amount of high frequency service that we currently operate today, which is huge, huge increases, and again, a 25% increase overall in the service that we are providing. This is I can't even underscore enough how transformative this is going to be in terms of transit access in the region. But bus lanes are going to be or just general transit priority is going to be really, really important here. Because, again, if you if you want to imagine bus as as we think of rapid transit, then we need to make sure it's reliable and we need to make sure it's frequent and the same way our street network is unique. We have pretty unique or maybe not unique traffic. Pretty, pretty, you know, intense traffic here in Boston. I think we've won some awards for that before that maybe we're not so proud of. So I think, you know, the municipal partnership here is going to be really important. And I will say, like, we've had some really great conversations already with with many municipalities who also want to make bus service better for for their residents in terms of GLX, we basically just assumed that, you know, we wanted to again complement that. And and because we are not we're looking at a phased five-year implementation period, some of these changes aren't going to happen right away. Right. So we can wait until some of those pieces of GLX are fully implemented in order to make sure that we're not kind of stranding any riders and complementing what's going to exist there. [00:17:16][107.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:17:17] And floating in the background of this is kind of the cost question. I think everyone at this point is familiar with ongoing structural funding and revenue issues with the MBTA. So specifically, how are you keeping funding in mind while pushing for more service? You know, was it an expectation that there might be cuts elsewhere or were there specific cost caps you were trying to stay under? Because if money was no issue I'd imagine everyone says like great transit service and busses for for everybody at all times, but you do have some kind of realistic constraints. [00:17:46][29.3]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:17:47] Yeah. So I think bus has been underserved in the region for a while. We as an agency want to prioritize and make the bus experience better and our leadership team has committed to doing that over the next few years and even beyond that. So we actually baked into our pro forma, our five year kind of capital plan, the additional 25% increase in the operating budget that will start in in five years. And we'll kind of build up to that over the next five years. And so that's going to be the expectation going forward. And I think if you hear our general manager or the secretary talk about this, they are committed to this and I think kind of going to do what they can to to ensure that that we have those funds available to prioritize this initiative. [00:18:44][56.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:18:45] So walk us through the next steps. Where and when can community members submit their input? How are those comments going to get factored into this big old design? Take us through all of that. [00:18:58][12.9]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:18:59] Yeah, sure. So we've already started to receive input, which is great. We love to see that. Please keep doing that. You can find all of the information on this project at MBTA.com, slash BNRD. We have our first kind of big system wide public meeting on the draft map tonight, May 19th at 6 p.m.. That's going to be a virtual meeting, but we are hosting all sorts of in-person, which I'm personally very excited about meetings at different stops and stations will where we'll be talking to riders and get their input there as well as these virtual meetings. And then also just, you know, working with different community based organizations to get out to riders that way as well. But we found just generally kind of going to where riders are has been really effective in getting the feedback we need. But please do submit all of the comments we want to hear all of them. This will only be made better if we hear directly from riders. So, you know, we really want to make sure that we that we do that. [00:20:01][61.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:20:02] All right. Caroline Vanesse, project manager for the MBTA Bus Network Redesign, thank you so much for walking us through this today. [00:20:09][7.0]

Caroline Vanesse: [00:20:09] Thank you for having me. [00:20:10][0.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:20:18] A new, highly transmissible Omicron variant known as BA.2.12.1, has erupted onto the scene and dominated Massachusetts as cases have ticked up in recent weeks, shattering any hopes for a more relaxed COVID spring. Joining us to talk about the variant is Dr. Todd Ellerin, director of Infectious Diseases and Chief of Medicine at South Shore Health in Weymouth. Welcome to the podcast. [00:20:42][24.1]

Todd Ellerin: [00:20:43] It's good to be here. [00:20:43][0.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:20:44] So talk to us about how this new strain or sub variant or whatever it's called, it fits into this growing Omicron family and how it was able to grab such a foothold in Massachusetts. [00:20:55][11.2]

Todd Ellerin: [00:20:56] Oh, you know, it's all so confusing, right? I mean, this virus, the SARS-CoV-2, is literally mutating for a living. And so it's creating all of these new viruses and some variants. I think the important thing to know is it's an RNA virus. These viruses do mutate. We would have never predicted, though, that this virus would have created all of these variants that actually are causing harm and in spreading from person to person. Most mutations in these viruses really don't do much. But with with with COVID 19, we're just seeing a completely different animal where a lot of these different variants are more contagious and leading to immune evasion so they can escape the vaccines and they can escape prior infection. And I think I think initially what we dealt with with the original Wuhan strain, it didn't change for a while, so we were just used to that virus. But then, you know, came, you know, alpha and beta and Delta. And with Delta we actually saw a very, very, very different virus than the original one. [00:22:05][68.3]

Todd Ellerin: [00:22:05] Delta sort of borrowed all of these all star mutations from some of the different viruses that had preceded it. And and then came Omicron and Macron. We would have never predicted that Omicron would have come from Delta, because that looked very much different from Delta and also very much different from the original strain. And it looks like now with Omicron being the most contagious variant to date. It looks like the virus has settled into a place where these new variants are actually all have a lot of features of the Omicron variant. So we're calling them sort of sub variants of Omicron. And as you know, the most recent one has, you know, a long number. This BA.2 .12.1. And and. Right. I mean it's very now needs its own zip code. And but but the important thing is is is that it is it's a little more contagious than Omicron, but it also has immune evasion so it can escape. The good news, though, is that overall, because many of us have been infected and most of us have either been infected or vaccinated, boosted, etc., that we have a much stronger shield against severe illness than we've ever had before. So we're really seeing milder infections, we're seeing better outcomes. We're seeing less patients in our intensive care unit. We're seeing less patients dying of COVID than we have had before. But again, remember, it is so contagious. There are lots of people getting infected. So we're still seeing increases in hospitalizations. We are seeing increases in deaths, but it's much less than it was with the Omicron surge. [00:23:58][112.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:23:59] And so you just mentioned immune evasion with this. Is there now a greater likelihood of reinfection even between these omicron some variants than we originally thought? [00:24:09][9.9]

Todd Ellerin: [00:24:10] We think so. It's still a work in progress. So I don't want to pretend that we know exactly. Because, remember, so many people are getting tested at home. So it's not so many patients now are getting especially the high risk patients are getting prescriptions, of course, Logan, which is really working to help patients prevent them having to go even see their their provider getting hospitalized, etc.. So but we do think that because this is a little more contagious, because it does have properties of immune evasion, we do think we're seeing more reinfection, but it's still not super common, but it's probably more common than we think. [00:24:47][37.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:24:48] And you also just mentioned, you know, kind of the is this at home testing? So it's a little bit harder to tell now what levels really are, unless you're looking at the wastewater tracker obsessively, like many of us are. So what impact does kind of the does this rapid testing in the shift to more at home testing have on your ability, our ability to accurately assess COVID levels? [00:25:11][22.3]

Todd Ellerin: [00:25:12] Well, you bring up a really, really good point. I mean, right now, the best way to really track where future infections are going is the wastewater, because so many of us are testing at home as we should be. By the way, we should be using the rapid tests. And remember, just remember, a single rapid test doesn't rule out COVID, you really need really need at least two over over a period of a couple or a few days. But I think that when you see wastewater increasing, that really does tend to show increased number of cases. Then hospitalizations go up and deaths followed. But again, the good news is we have uncoupled cases with hospitalizations. So now even when more people get hospital-- or even when more people get infected, less people are getting hospitalized. Even if that number is rising and we're uncoupling hospitalizations with deaths. So, for example, right now, currently, we have somewhere between 30 and 40 people in the hospital with COVID, but we only have one or two patients in our intensive care unit. And by the way, those patients have been in there for a while, so they're not even new cases. So we're seeing much less really critical illness. And that's because we have better therapeutics as well. We do not just the world antivirals, but the monoclonal. We know what to do with steroids in immune suppression. And so we're really better equipped at handling even the most severe infections. [00:26:45][92.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:26:46] And so we're starting to see some numbers that look like what the numbers looked like in late January when we were starting to come off this this big, big original Omicron surge. So given where we are now, how should policymakers, you know, our mayors, our people at the state House be responding to the sub variant in terms of masking or vaccine requirements? You know, what about these mandates? [00:27:11][24.2]

Todd Ellerin: [00:27:12] So. I think we know what we have to do. Okay. And so if you are vulnerable, if you're immuno compromised, obesity, chronic heart or lung disease diabetics, end stage, kidney disease, these type of patients really need to be maximally protected in the way we get maximally protected right now is not just two doses of vaccine, but really you want to make sure the minimum is a three dose series. So you want to make sure that your primary series and a booster and of course the most compromised patients and and those with these other co-morbidities that I mentioned even now that second booster or fourth dose is is really important, especially if you're 50 and older. So those that combined with the fact that if you are moderately to severely immunocompromised, there is a monoclonal antibody called evusheld, you show that you can take prophylactically before you're infected, before you're exposed, that can decrease your risk of getting COVID and symptoms with COVID by close to 80%. Think about that for a second and it has a long half life so it can stay in your body for a while. So these are things. And then of course, there's text of it. So if you get infected, you want to the testing treat model that we're hearing about is so important. You test your positivity. If you are high risk, you want to immediately get on this easy to take oral antiviral. It's three pills twice a day. You take it for five days. There are some drug drug interactions. You want to talk to the pharmacist or provider. There are great websites to look at and but there are ways of getting most patients on this medication for all of those reasons. We're able to decrease severe illness because of that. I think the need for mask mandates in schools or in in office settings, I think that's probably less relevant than knowing what we need to do. Masks definitely decrease transmission. Is it important to mask indoors? It is, especially when COVID is on the rise and you're in a crowded area. But that's especially true if you are a compromised individual to protect yourself. We also want to protect others as well, but it's also the balance of the pandemic fatigue and knowing that a lot of us just aren't going to mask anymore. I think that as long as the people who are the most vulnerable are masking when they need to are fully vaccinated and boosted, I think mandates are less relevant now than they were before. [00:29:52][159.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:29:53] And each kind of different strain of this has brought a slightly different incubation period, slightly different symptoms. What should we be looking for with, you know, the new strain that's starting to dominate in Massachusetts now? [00:30:06][12.9]

Todd Ellerin: [00:30:07] Right. So with the original Wuhan strain, it was more flu like. Right. You had high fevers, you had know, sore throat, you had cough. And many people obviously had pneumonia. That that's a lower respiratory infection. So, you know, some people are calling, called Omicron, they referred to it as Omi-cold. And while some people don't like it because, of course, Omicron killed many people around the world, many Americans. It's true. But the truth is, is that for most people who get this, it is more upper respiratory, more cold like nasal congestion, you know, stuffiness, headache, things that you can get with a cold sore. So with this with this sub variant, you know, it tends for most people tends to be cold, like less likely to develop pneumonia. With that said, there are still plenty of patients that are, especially those who are compromised, who can get no severe illness with this. So I don't want people, viewers to think that. I'm just saying this is just like the common cold, but. It has transformed, especially probably with some of our background immunity so that you can have symptoms that just look like a cold and you may have COVID. So it's important to test, especially if you're going to be around people who are compromised or vulnerable. [00:31:21][74.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:31:23] And since the virus has sort of been able to outsmart the vaccine a little bit with some of its mutations. Are there vaccines in the works that can better tackle Omicron and its various strains. [00:31:34][11.6]

Todd Ellerin: [00:31:35] That these is really the $64,000 question? And, of course, scientists around the world in pharmaceutical companies and biotechs are really trying to collaborate to figure out what the what the next generation vaccines are going to look like. And it's not straightforward. I'm going to give you an example. There was a study that compared the old sequence of the original sequence vaccine, the one we're using now with an Omicron sequence vaccine, and looked to see how immunity looked against for Omicron-like variants. And actually, the original vaccine led to a greater antibody response than the one that was better matched. Now, that's a real head scratcher, and I'm not going to try to explain why that is. But the bottom line is we have to test these vaccines in the laboratory and then in the real world to see which ones are are looking better. And it's likely that the best next generation vaccines are going to have multiple sequences in them, not just single ones. And ultimately, of course, what we want is we want that universal vaccine. We want to figure out the Achilles heel of COVID 19 and take advantage of that. We don't know what that is quite yet. [00:32:53][77.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:32:54] Oh, that is absolutely fascinating. And I can't wait to see how that develops. But that is all the time we have today. So, Doctor Todd Ellerin of South Shore Health, thank you so much for taking the time. [00:33:03][9.7]

Todd Ellerin: [00:33:04] Thank you so much. [00:33:05][0.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:33:07] And that brings us to our final segment this week, which is, of course, trivia. Last week we asked you how much do you actually know about the state's second highest ranking job? Because let's find out. We're doing a series of trivia questions surrounding the office of lieutenant governor. [00:33:22][14.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:33:23] So our first question about the number two job is who was the first lieutenant governor of the great state of Massachusetts, or, shall I say, the great commonwealth of Massachusetts? So kudos and 10 to 12000 horse race trivia points where we're keeping it vague here. To Adam Bass for the right answer, which is drum roll, please, Thomas Cushing. [00:33:48][24.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:33:48] All right. We expect results through pony express mail through carrier pigeons. If you want to just do like a nice Morse code or something, any of that works, we won't receive any of it. So probably just tweet at us. That is all the time we have for today. I am Jennifer Smith signing off with Lisa Kashinsky. As always, thanks to our cherished producer, Libby Gormley. Don't forget to give the horse race a review wherever you're hearing us. Now, to help other people find us, subscribe to the Massachusetts Politico playbook and reach out to the Mass INC Polling Group if you need any polls done. Thank you all for listening. See you next week. [00:33:48][0.0]

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